I'm trying to break away from slots and play more VP. I have a question about a basic strategy move in JOB.

Say you are dealt a hand with 2 face cards of different suits - for example King of Hearts and Jack of spades. The remaining 3 cards are low cards - no pairs.

One trainer I've been using says to hold both the king and the jack. I don't understand why. Wouldnt it be better to hold just one of the face cards, say the king, increasing the chance of drawing another king?

Sorry for such a dense question.

Go with the program<g> ... you have a 3 in 47 chance of drawing another king, but you have a 6 in 47 chance of drawing either a king or the other matching face card.

P.S. Ya gotta try harder cuz that wasn't too dense a question!

Actually you have an extra draw by only saving the king, BUT 3cards x 4draws =12, as opposed to 6cards x 3draws =18. So I gotta agree with Daisy, the odds are on your side by saving the one card.

Hold Both. The object of video poker is to get a royal flush dealt to you. If that does not happen, your next goal is to get as much money back as you can so that you can try it again. That's because the bonus for getting the royal with 5 coins sweetens the pot so much.

Your non-royal hand needs to be played for maximum expected value. The return on just the king and jack in your case is 2.4702, holding the jack only is 2.3628, and holding the king only is 2.3175. It may not seem like much difference, but you are playing the odds and the longer you play the more that difference will add up. Note that holding the king only is slightly less than the jack. That's because the with the king, you have less options filling the top part of a straight.

What trainer are you using? Masque used to show the odds on each hand so you could see WHY various hold cards are better than other. Bob Dancer's WinPoker is pretty powerful for analyzing hands and training modes, as well as being current on the most popular Las Vegas games. Masque was a little weak in being current on the last version I saw.

EVERY hand has a correct way to play. Every time it boils down to the expected return over time. Each time you make a wrong play, the house edge gets bigger. I don't always play the correct way or the optimal game. I usually know when I do something wrong, and I usually have an excuse that is not acceptable. Too drunk, don't care, button stuck, oh well, I don't like going for straights, etc.

If I can play 500 hands on my computer without an error just about every session, I feel comfortable in knowing the game enough to play it for money.

It's not so much the number of draws you can get as much as what you can do with the cards you draw. Sometimes the cards you hold will block out your chances of getting something else. Sometimes you get more chances of getting a better variety of hands. That's why you need to go with the expected value.

Thanks I actually understand most parts of these responses.

Okay Daisy i will try harder. Say its KH JS and AD. Or KH JS and QD.

Hold all three? Hold 2 that wil give you a better chance of a straight?

JMT I was lucky enough to receive a gift of Winpoker but alas, it does not work on the Mac system. And don't really think I can get away with loading on the windows system at work! So I have been using an online trainer at a free slots site.


On a side note; I was totally shocked to discover full pay tables at the new Vp machines at the local "racino" What are they thinking?

In the first case, I'd hold the KH and JS and discard the AD, but I would hold the KH,JS and QD in the second hand .. both decisions based on a chance of a straight.

I'm not shocked at FP JOB at a local casino; it's not a positive expectation game, so they already have an advantage.

I'm totally impressed that JMT can play 500 hands of WinPoker without a mistake! I can't play 100 hands without mistakes<g>. I don't think I'm THAT much dumber than JMT .. I happen to know he does the smart thing and concentrates on ONE game. I don't know if I could get that good if I concentrated on one game, but I do know I wouldn't enjoy playing just one game, so I settle for decent strategy on several games I enjoy. I also depend on LUCK.

I'm not that good. One of the big problems is that I learn a game and when I go to the casino I find a different paytable. And it doesn't take much of a difference on a paytable to change strategy to 1 mistake every 50 hands. And if the paytable is changed quite a bit, it's whole new game.

I'm far to lazy to scope out the only 3 paytables I am good at. Some are close, some are exact, and some are way off. Still, I hope the basic strategy will keep me afloat.

It may sound like I don't practice what I preach as far as knowing the game and playing every hand correct. That's true. But there is something to be said for knowing the basic game, knowing the right moves, not taking pot shots at luck, and adjusting common sense when the paytable changes.

I probably could get those cheat sheets that come as nice cards and use them. I have a few that a good friend made for me. Those are good trainers too.

Good point about the pay tables - I just went back and checked my files - last year I hit 9 Royals, only 3 of them were on full pay machines. A lot of my play last year was in tribal casinos along my work route; I'm comfortable enough with pay tables and strategy that I feel I can pick the best available game, but luck is definitely a factor. I still enjoy playing some slots (mainly penny video fun games), but I switched to video poker because it stretches out my bankroll - it's entertainment for me, and I get much more bang for my buck.

Now, a question for JMT - FP DDB is 9/6, but at least two casinos in Las Vegas (Tuscany and Sam's) have 10/6 DDB, which kicks DDB up to a positive expectation game -- the question is "does 10/6 change the basic strategy?"

As you know and as I've said since the Prodigy daze, I'm no expert.

According to WinPoker, 9/6 DDB is not a 100% game. It is calculated at 98.9808%

Also according to WinPoker, the 10/6 game is over 100%. It is calculated at 100.0670% This vesion is taking the regular 9/6 DDB game and just changing that one line from a 9 to a 10 per coin. All other lines remain the same.

If you can think of a hand where the decision is close between going for a flush or full house, perhaps the strategy would change. I can't think of one at this time, although I don't have my thinking cap on.

Daisy - NINE royals last year???!!!??? I've had 7 in my entire life! Now I'm wondering whether you have a better chance at a royal because you play Deuces Wild much of the time. I pretty much stick to DB or DDB. Hmmm......

Mike, I don't beleive you have a better chance on Dueces of hitting the royal. If anything you have less of a chance, because optium play is different, playing for the mid range stuff like wild royals, and the dueces.
That's why if the progressive is up at a bar, I won't play the dueces machines, because of the play.

At the Silverton, the quarter progressive deuces often gets in the $2000+ range. I think $2600 was the highest I've seen there. I agree with Lee about the strategy of play making them less likely, although my last 2 royals were on deuces machines.

I think Daisy has a better chance than most of us because she plays more often than most of us. But the real reason Daisy gets those royals is that she is pretty dang good on the vp machines.

Only one of my royals has been on a full pay machine. All the others have been short........most of these 6/5 pay tables.

Me thinks you just have to be at the right machine, right place and right time. Good Karma may help!!

Beth

Still trying to get that 1st royal! Maybe this upcoming trip...might have to get some luck off of Lee since Daisy won't be there!

Karen

LOL Mike & JMT, I'll say it again ... I depend on LUCK (or Karma<g>).

There are different numbers for Royals on the different games.

DB - 1 in 48,048 hands
DDB - 1 in 40,789
Deuces- vary but somewhere around 42-45K for most games

I went back to check which games I was playing- - 2 on DB, 2 on DDB and the rest on various Deuces games. I hit 3 in Nevada, and the rest were scattered along my work route. I usually play 4-5 hours/day on my leisure trips to Nevada, but sometimes I might play only 30 minutes to an hour to unwind after work.

This year has been really funny timewise. I've hit no Royals on vacation in Nevada, but I've hit 4 along my work route. I hit the first one after 3-4 hours of play on my "drive day" to Reno. The next two came in the evenings at Tahoe, when I had less than 30 minutes of play time in my schedule due to 12-hour work days, and I hit the last one when I had an extra 15 minutes after breakfast on my way out of Tahoe<g>.

Mike, maybe this year is "your year" - keep in mind that I've hit a total of 18 Royals in the 8-9 years I've been playing VP, and 13 have been in the last year and a half --- that's LUCK, not skill because I played just as much in 2003<g>.

P.S. - here's a high five to Karen, to share the luck for her trip.

Thanks Daisy! I'll let you know if it worked!

Karen

Daisy - Thanks for the info. You're certainly a lucky gal - I think it's great that you keep track of when and where you've hit all of your royals! I can tell you where I hit mine as well, but it's easy for me since they were all at either NYNY or Bellagio - I don't get around as much as you! I'm hoping this is "my year." I haven't been to Las Vegas since January and am going through withdrawal - but there's light at the end of the tunnel - I return 3 weeks from today! --Mike

Mike....I'm Jelious

Mike, if you are getting excited and can't wait, you could always post a pre-trip report post with your plans, to do list, and random thoughts.