With the Millenium celebration just around the corner, amongst my friends, there has been a lot of talk about getting a fake ID. They cost about fifty dollars and some people will make several for you, (just in case a place takes one away from you). Well, I would like to say that I think at the legal age of 18 people should be allowed to drink.
Well, I wonder how the City is planning on controlling the rage of under-age drinking that will probably be a big problem this year.
I paid $600 for two tickets to see Bette. Shouldn't I be allowed to have ONE drink to celebrate the once-in-a-lifetime Millenium??? By the way, MOM, when you read this don't think I want to drink regularly...I just think that the laws should be different.
At age 18 we can 1) buy a gun (this right will probably be taken away soon!), 2) go to war, 3) enter a legal contract, and do many other things that Adults are allowed to do... But why not drink??? Tell me what YOU think.

Joe

Oh great Joe, then where am I going to sit atthe bar? With all the 18yr olds taking up the seats! [img]http://www.talkvegas.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

I know many 18yr olds that shouldn't be allowed to purchase weapons, should be allowed to enter into there own contracts, and definatly not go to war (they have trouble dressing themselves).
So while you may be one of the better 18-21 year olds, your being held back because of the average!
#1 life lesson......Life is not fair, get used to it!

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Lee-PA
Moderator, What's New Forum
lee@talkvegas.com

Joe, I went through the same thoughts back in 1974, with an added twist. I was also old enough to be drafted into a war that nobody believed in, and die for someone elses political ego.

I don't think you should be drinking at 18. It's really over-rated, and difficult to pin down how much you drink. Nobody can drink just one. If you have one drink on NYE, and another the next month, then once a week, it's still regularly. It's just that the definition of regularly is different. You would be kidding yourself if you have that first legal drink and say that you aren't a drinker. The lengths that people go to in order to justify their drinking is terrible. You can look at ALL the recovery treatments that make two important points. First, they must quit completely...not just cut back their drinking. Occasional drinking is not allowed. Second, they are never cured. They are always recovering.

On the other hand, if you are 18, I think you should "have the right" to drink, since you are old enough to take on the other responsibilities you mentioned. You should have the right to make an educated decision on all of those issues. It won't be easy making a lot of decisions in life, and we all hope that you make responsible decisions and become a responsible person.

Also, Bette Midler looked and sounded the same in 1974 as she does today.

Good Luck!!!

Joe, Lee and JMT make some good points, and I'd like to add one more.......I had a few drinks before I was 21, but I did NOT have a drink when I was driving at that age. One drink would not make you an irresponsible drunk driver, but it would still bring you a lot of grief if an older (but not wiser) drunk plowed into you at a stop sign, etc.

Aside from that, I agree that it's kind of strange to be able to vote and go to war if you can't be trusted with one drink.

Joe,

Good question. In the limited time I've spent with you, you seem to have your head screwed on straight and be a responsible, mature, teen ager.

When I was your age, I looked much older and was able to buy booze pretty easily. Actually, in Ohio, we had what they called 3.2 beer that you could buy when you were 18. It has a little less alcahol in it. The age for booze, wine and regular beer was 21. Now it's 21 for anything.

I did a good deal of drinking and was VERY lucky I never killed myself or others. When I think back on some of the stuff I did I can see how stupid it was.

About 15 years ago, someone very close to me realized they were an alcoholic adn went thru a rehab program. I wanted to help and went to several educational programs as well as a bunch of Al Anon meetings. The stuff I learned scared me to the point that I quit drinking completely for close to 10 years. The percentage of people who will become alcoholics is stagering.

As JMT said, once an alcoholic, even if you quit drinking, you're still an alcoholic and always will be. You're addiction can become progressively worse even while you're sober.

Maybe this is more than you wanted to know but I guess my point is, alcahol can be just as addicting as some drugs. Only difference is that it's legal once you reach a certain age. If you have an addictive personality, don't start. If you're the type person who can control yourself and do things in moderation, a few drinks probably won't hurt you.

jm

My philosphy on this is why try to "grow up" so fast. I always think back on going into the bars and dance clubs at 18, 19 (on fake IDs) and then when I turned 21, it was no big deal and old hat already. Like others on the board, I realize now, that I was way too young and immature to be in bars and drinking. I thank my lucky stars every day that nothing horrible happened to me or others on account of my stupidity (drinking and driving for one...I know REALLY STUPID!!) I understand your "thought process" Joe, but there's a season for everything and if all you want is one drink at midnight fine, but don't try and grow up so fast. Save some things for later because you have a large portion of your life to drink, hopefully responsibly. Just my "opinion". No offense intended.

Joe,
18 was voted in in Mich. once, BUT a few years later it was voted out. Funny thing about it is all the 18 year olds that cried about it being voted out did not vote.

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larryinmi@home.com

JOE:

When I was 16 (yes 16) I was wounded and in the hospital. When I was allowed to walk I went to the club and thought what kind of justice is this I can't even buy a drink. But age has put a little wisdom in the old head. You have your whole life ahead of you don't rush it. Don't let booze become an improtant part of your life like I did (its a long story and this is a board about Vegas)
Just slow down and enjoy life there is plenty of time ahead of you for booze and broads.

geez,the young adult wants to have a drink or two on a special occasion and you all jump on him.note all that say nay in fact didunderage drink,including me,and i am not a recovering.on a nite in vegas when the speedlimit is going to be gridlock,a gajillion other underage drinkers will find a way to drink,whats the prob?so i vote with you joe,no preaching from here,but waiting for moms reply!

D.A.G.>>Waiting for Mom's reply<< <lol>!!

Well, you all have some excellent responses. I believe that Joe Jr. has a lot of the same thoughts as I do. I don't believe in breaking the law UNLESS it is civil disobedience and with a good cause.

Back when I was 18 years old, the drinking age in Mass. was 18 years old. I remember when the drinking laws changed. They put it on the ballot. It was a big thing because of the Vietnam War and being drafted with the chance of being killed and then not being able to have a "choice" to drink, legally.

After awhile, they changed the law back to 21 years old but they did it gradually in
Mass. Every year, they went up one year- 19 yrs. old, 20 yrs. old, and then 21 years
old. Something to do with not taking away the legal rights that had already been
granted to you. Although, I'm sure they didn't need to do it this way.

I am "secretly" happy that the drinking age is 21 yrs. old. I don't know why. I don't
know if there is any proof that the younger the drinking age, the younger kids will start
drinking.

What worries me the most is drinking and driving and you don't have to be underage to
kill someone while drinking.

For those of you who know Joe Jr. personally, you already know that he does not
believe in smoking, doing drugs, or drinking. I "think" he is only looking at this topic from a philosophical/legal viewpoint.

JM>>If you have an addictive personality<<

Jeff, you have written one of the most important things in this thread. Whether it is drinking or drugging or gambling or working - to recognize the addictive personality is the first step. I know <bg>!! And Joe Jr. knows that this (addictive personality) runs in the family. And I am confident that he will do the right thing. Now, Theresa may be a different story but I'll just chain her up until she's 18 yrs. old and Joe Jr. will help me <lol>!!

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gail@talkvegas.com
Moderator, TalkVegas After Hours
Administrator, TalkVegas BB

Mom, I think Joe Jr is one of the most level headed and mature young adults that I have ever met.

Too bad that the issue has to deal with age. Joe Jr seems smart enough to handle most adult issues that cross his path better than many people over the age of 21.

Maybe instead of age, they should give people a test to get a drinkers license. And make it a test to show responsiibility, common sense, and maturity.

mom,i applaude your response

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D.A.G.SEATTLE
furdoo3@aol.com

Gail and Joe,

Now that I'm retired and have time to look back at my life from the teens on, I'm glad I lived it the way I did. Our crowd in high school wasn't inclined to drink, but they liked to break out cigars when we went to football games. After that experience, a lot of us lost interest in smoking. Then,
as a young adult, drinking became our pasttime. After several years of "social drinking", as I got older I came to realize that it took longer to get over the drinking than it did to get that way. So drinking no longer is of interest. Been there, done that, and don't need it anymore. On to better things (Like playing video poker, but not until age 21!)

Dick-So. Calif. 11/09/99

DAG,

I've got to disagree with your comment about "everyone jumping on him". I don't think that's really what anyone did. I think it was more of giving him a lot more information then he really asked for. At least in my case it was.

I DO agree with you that's it's probably OK for him to have a drink on such a special occasion.

jm

JMT, I agree, our friend JoeJR is mature beyound his age. He carries himself better then a lot of "older adults" I know.

So please JoeJR, don't think we are jumping on you. Mom should be very proud of you!

Well since everyone is confessing thier teenage sins LOL, I can't remember any of my friends that didn't drink underage. We all took a great deal of stupid chances, myself included. I'd also like to add, I've lost more then my share of these friends tragicly. So while I wish not to lecture, do take care. In the end it's your choice.

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Lee-PA
Moderator, What's New Forum
lee@talkvegas.com

jm,maybe,jumped at the chance to give him more information than he wanted,would have been a more accurate statement on my part.mom still gave the best response and i again give her a standing O

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D.A.G.SEATTLE
furdoo3@aol.com

I thank all of you for your nice comments.

And I'm not going to confess any of my teenage sins <lol>!!

Dick>>Been there, done that, and don't need it anymore.>> I think I'm about ready for that attitude <g>.

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gail@talkvegas.com
Moderator, TalkVegas After Hours
Administrator, TalkVegas BB

Joe jr.,
This subject has been more than a little difficult for me to address and yet I have felt the desire to do so. You see, most of us have the advantage of hindsight. As you know hindsight is 20-20. Foresight is somewhat less.

At 18 I was married, had my own address, telephone, credit cards, car loan, and was responsible enough to support my own home/apartment. But of course I was not allowed the privledge of legal drink. To this day it still seems unfair to me. However, I was among the minority. Most of my friends were still reckless and unreliable to a fault at 18, thus the age limit remained, and still does.

While I have not always understood or agreed with the rules and laws, I have always known the importance of following them. Even when I didn't. I have never gotten into trouble by following laws. I have when I didn't. Nothing more embarresing than to have to call your dad from jail because of stupidity, even if he understands.

To often in this world people take it upon themselves to change the rules to fit their own personal needs. When this happens, many people suffer. While the murder of the woman at the Golden Gate casino has nothing to do with the age of legalized drinking, it does have to do with the selfish nature of those who do not believe rules are for them.

So before you take that first drink, look at who you are and who you would like to become. Keep your morals high, even when those around you don't. Build yourself a solid foundation from which your life will grow.

O.K. so I sound like my father. But you know what? He was right. [img]http://www.talkvegas.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

DAG, after reading Joe Jrs' note over a few times, it seems more clear that he is not asking a bunch of Vegas Junkies for advice. He set the stage and then asked what we think about that stage. Most of us, including myself, chimed in a little more than was asked, but my bottom line is the law isn't fair if you can take on the other responsibilites, and not the alcohol issue. However, it is the law, and every time it works, we all benefit.

And I'll chime in one more time to Joe about something else.

Joe - DON'T BUY A FAKE ID!!! You truly can't imagine all the trouble that could cause. The movie Vegas Vacation is a bad example of what a fake ID can get you in to. If less than legal circumstances puts a drink in your hand and you take it, that's your business. Fake IDs are becoming more and more a felony across the country because of all the trouble they cause. An under age drink may be step one in setting your social behavior in the years to come. A fake ID is step one in criminal behavior. Don't go there.

Joe Jr.: Please don't buy a fake I.D. Both my kids had several acquaintances who got in deep trouble having them, not to mention the kids who were caught making the I.D.s. It's not worth it and really scared both my children when they saw and heard what happened to people they knew at school who one day were college students and the next day were expelled--or worse. One kid my daughter's friend knew ended up in prison for making the phony I.D.s, so this is very serious stuff.

I'm curious...Joe Jr., or anyone, what is the penalty in Las Vegas for possessing a fake I.D.? I imagine it must be quite stiff because of the gambling involvement.

I grew up in California. The legal drinking age was 21 way back even when I turned 18/21. Although I thought it unfair, I was never "upset" about having to wait until 21 to buy booze. Although it is still "unfair" today, I still like the fact that young adults are required to be 21 until they can legally drink. I know at that age I was invincible and I also know that I drank very little during those days because of the laws. Maybe the time I got chaired in my dorm room and I had to ledge walk 6 stories high to get to an open room would have ended differently if I had been drinking. Maybe the times I raced on the L.A. freeways at 110 miles/hour would have ended differently if I had been drinking. Maybe any of the other "stupid, I'm invincible" stunts I did when I was young would have ended tragically if I had been drinking.

Joe Jr, yes it's unfair. I agree with you that it is. But it's an unfair law I agree with. My suggestion, though, if you'd really like to "celebrate" the Millenium (don't read this, mom) with a drink is to get one of those plastic one shot airline booze bottles and pour it into your coke at the concert. But just one!<g>

Randy

My suggestion to anyone underage who wants to "celebrate" the Millenium should do it at home with the family. Any and all friends should be welcomed to the house with NO ONE driving.

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gail@talkvegas.com
Moderator, TalkVegas After Hours
Administrator, TalkVegas BB

Gail,

A BIG AMEN to that!!!!

In NC when I was 16, I worked in a grocery store where the assistant manager was only 22. He didn't mind if we took beer with us as long as we payed for it. Since I worked in the Deli, I would pack a couple 6 packs in a paper bag and fill with crushed ice. With some of the nights, I'm amazed that I'm still here.
That's why when my son started getting into the higher teen years, it was understood that when I at home with him he could have a beer while we were grilling out or after sawing up firewood, etc.
I still think that it is rediculous to make it illegal for 18-21 year to have a beer, when as it has been said, they can buy a house, a car, go to war and kill people, get married and have children, but not drink a beer. I was in the 18 year old crowd when I became a legal alcoholic. I didn't even get ID'd untill I was 32 years old at a Charlotte Hornets game. But it was something special to finally go to the local bar with my father when I turned 18.
But on Dec 31st, I will be at my Bar here in town, But I'm taking my sleeping bag, so I don't have to worry about being on the road with overzealous police officers or people that don't care if they kill someone, as long as they're having fun!!
So Joe, enjoy your concert and hurry home afterwards, Mom might let you sneak one of her Millenium Bud's.

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Layne in NC

Layne & Gail,
Ariel was always allowed to drink at home if she wanted, but then she stayed home after consuming. This would keep both of us out of trouble! [img]http://www.talkvegas.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Lee-PA
Moderator, What's New Forum
lee@talkvegas.com

Recent story about a couple, here in Ohio I think, who let their teen age kid have a party at their farm. Mom & dad knew there would be beer but thought it was going to be OK since everyone was there on the farm and not driving. Mom & dad got arrested !

jm

Everyone,
thank you for all the replies. I had a good feeling when I started this topic that it would spark an interest. And that is all I really wanted... To those of you with the advice- I thank you too. I am not one to get offended easily and I would like to say that I have not been offended at all by anybody's comment(s).
Also, I am NOT going to buy a fake ID. First of all, I do not NEED to drink or gamble so badly that I am about to spend $50 or more to do so. As far as the legal reprocussions... Here in Las Vegas, my understanding is this: persons whom have fake ID's basically get a slap on the wrist...the people whom make the fake ID's get the big book thrown right at them!!! (It is a federal offense to make IDs) You won't catch me making fake ID's EVER!!!
Thanks again for all your notes.

Joe

Thanks Joe Jr. for that info.

Let me add my 2 cents here, but please understand I

V, you raised some good points, and there is no way to get around the fact that underage drinking is against the law....BUT<g>..for the sake of argument, let's also acknowledge there is a bit of underage curiosity about drinking. I think it's better to satisfy this curiousity with a glass of wine/beer/champagne at home with your parents. Some teenage adults (ie, 18 year olds) just might think "no big deal."

Daisy....EXACTLY!!!

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Lee-PA
Moderator, What's New Forum
lee@talkvegas.com

And there is curiosity about drug usage too from young adults. And sex. And smoking. And pornography. And shoplifting. And street racing in the parents car. And body piercing. And tatoos. And suicide. And gambling. And....

Gees, I'm glad I'm not a parent or a young adult, and I'm lucky to have made it through life this long.

Veronica and Jeff brought up some good points. When my kids were little, they asked to taste the wine and the beer when we used to have all our family gatherings. Their response was, "YUK!!" So I've been lucky that I've never had to make a decision on letting them drink at home, underage.

Joe Jr. is over 18 and he can now make many of his own decisions. And with every bad decision, there are consequences. And he knows this. Aaaand, jail can be one of those consequences. And it is VERY cold in the Las Vegas jails this time of year <lol>!

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gail@talkvegas.com
Moderator, TalkVegas After Hours
Administrator, TalkVegas BB

Well, I wanted to stir the pot<g>. JMT's list is thought-provoking. Today's teenager's are bombarded by the "glamor" of many of the activities listed....today's teenagers may not have had the time to develop adult judgement, but they are not stupid either. Just possibly, if they can figure out just one thing on that list isn't what it's cracked up to be, they might look over the rest of the list with a jaundiced eye.
Sometimes, a kid can get in over their head due to peer pressure....how many parents have an agreement with their kids that if they do have a couple of underage drinks, the kid can call home for a ride?...no lectures (they've already figured out part of the problem)..just a safe ride home. I'm not a parent, but I've made this agreement with some of my frends kids, so I obviously think it's a good idea.

Daisy,
I've had this agreement with Ariel, if she ever needed a ride after drinking, I'd rather have her call home and have someone pick her up and be safe.
But I also informed her from the time she can remember, if she gets picked up by the police, to expect to spend the night. We'll be out to get her bailed out the next day! [img]http://www.talkvegas.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



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Lee-PA
Moderator, What's New Forum
lee@talkvegas.com

Lee, I like your attitude! You've made it clear that you're there to help, but you've also stressed that Ariel is going to be held responsible for her actions.