About a week before Christmas, I was thinking of getting out of town for the holidays since I didn't really have any specific plans. I see my family many times during the year and usually reserve the Christmas holidays for myself.

So I went to American Airlines' website to look for cheap fares. My first shot was southeast Florida where my parents are – the airfares were very high. Second shot was Buffalo where my grandmother and a few other relatives are – airfares WAY too high. Third shot was New Orleans which is a city I love and have friends there – airfares too high. Fourth shot – Las Vegas – if I flew on Christmas Day first thing in the morning and returned on the weekend - $218! Bingo! I hesitated slightly since I had just been there for Thanksgiving – “What would my friends and family think of me?” But then I thought, “Oh what the hell!” So I called my casino host at NYNY to see if I could snag a free room at that time. When she told me I could stay for 3 nights but would have to vacate on Saturday since they were sold out, the trip was set – I was off for Vegas again!

I left Chicago first thing in the morning on Christmas Day and arrived early in LV at 9:00AM. Since I figured it was way too early to check into NYNY, I cabbed it over to the Palms to play some 10/7 DB poker and catch a late-morning movie. Within the first 5 minutes of playing, I hit Quad Aces (on a quarter machine) and by the time I cashed out I was $250 ahead. This was about the only luck I'd have on the entire trip.

After the show (Gangs of New York – I'd give it 3 stars), I headed over to NYNY to check in. I got a wonderful Jacuzzi room on the 28th floor with a view of the strip. After getting myself unpacked and settled, I headed down to the casino to seek out my favorite machines. Unfortunately, to my horror, they were ALL GONE! Since the last time I had visited NYNY, they had mostly converted all of their slots and VP machines to the EZ Pay ticket system. But what they did with VP was take out all the old machines and replace them with Game King multi-game machines. I HATE these machines because I never win on them and their pay schedules are usually bad. Such was the case at NYNY.

Realize, I've been playing video poker now for about 6 years, visiting Las Vegas 3 or 4 times per year. Since 1998, I've been a regular player at New York-New York, and have enjoyed their video poker selection (mostly 9/7 Double Bonus at both the dollar and quarter level). In fact, I've been SUCH a good player that I regularly get my rooms and meals comped and I've stayed there almost exclusively over the past 4 years. I've had good luck and bad luck, but always felt like I got an good value and a winning chance at my efforts.

That said, I was horribly disappointed to see that MOST of their video poker inventory is now these Game Kings with mostly unfavorable pay schedules. In my experience, I've never have ANY luck at these Game King machines and always hesitate playing them. And playing at NYNY on this trip, my worst fears came true – Every time I sat down to play, these machines didn't pay anything. I could hardly get a Pair of Jacks, let alone 3 of a Kind or a Full House. My efforts at playing were futile since my money disappeared quickly and I never felt like I had a winning chance at anything. I tried both dollars and quarters (which had WORSE pay schedules) and NOTHING was paying. I lost my session limit very quickly and bailed out. So I put myself in a position to observe other people playing and NO ONE was winning. I did this several times during the trip and never saw anyone win anything.

The good news (if there is any) was that their quarter triple pays with the royal progressives were still there and at least when I play at these machines, I feel like I have a chance. However, those machines did not have the EZ Pay ticket system on them and I'm afraid they'll probably disappear soon.

So I spent a good portion of the rest of the trip walking around, looking at the Christmas decorations at the various hotels – Bellagio, of course, was beautiful; my favorite was Mandalay Bay - going to the movies, sitting in my “free” Jacuzzi, playing much more blackjack than I normally do, and of course, eating (one of my favorite activities! .

Christmas night (Wednesday) was pretty much a bust. I was afraid to play anymore VP so I tried blackjack and craps but lost at both. So I drowned my sorrows in Krispy Kremes.

Thursday morning I had a small winning session on the triple play progressives, then headed to Excalibur's non-smoking blackjack pit where I settled in for about 3 hours – a fun dealer, a nice group of people at the table, and a small win. Did a movie in the afternoon (Catch Me if You Can – 3 stars), Jacuzzi, dinner at Chin-Chin in NYNY, then to Bellagio to listen to the band at the Fontana Lounge and play some VP at machines I feel safe on. Had a fun, break-even session.

Friday morning I attempted to give the Game Kings at NYNY another try but it was useless – same story. Bailed out, went to Excalibur to play craps (won a bunch of money very quickly and bailed) and blackjack (lost it all back slllooowwwllllyyyyyy). Movie in the late afternoon (Two Week Notice – horrible – 1 star), Jacuzzi, dinner at the Mexican place in NYNY, and finished up with a losing session of BJ back at Excalibur. Well, actually, I finished with a consolation session of Krispy Kremes!

Back at NYNY I went to the Player's Club Booth to get whatever cashback I had coming (not much). The woman there told me they were phasing out their merchandise that you get for points and said I had quite a few banked over the years that I never used. I had something like 15,000 points. So I ended up getting 3 golf shirts, 4 t-shirts, and a terry-cloth robe. I'm glad I had extra room in my suitcase!

I left first thing the next morning and got back to Chicago by noon. The plane was nearly empty. But I left NYNY with a bitter taste in my mouth. Right now I'm wondering whether or not I continue giving NYNY my business or seeking a new home base when I'm in Las Vegas. I'm wondering was it just my bad luck or do those Game Kings pay according to the pay schedules they're supposed to pay at? The skeptic inside me tells me they've set these machines to pay less than what they're supposed to.

And I think I'm going to write a letter of discontent to someone at NYNY and tell them of my experience. I'm not sure if this is a wise move or not but I think I'll at least ask them to try to bring back some 9/7 DB poker at the $1 level.

All in all, it was a disheartening trip.

Mike,
It sounds like your going to be forced to change hotels. If your level of play drops, you won't be getting those free rooms anymore either. So you might as well move to a place that has decent VP.
I personally think your best to spread some of your play around next trip at places you'd like to stay at. I like keeping my options open, because casino policy is a fickle thing, as you have just experianced.
I too don't like playing on new machines, I 'trust' the older ones, can't tell you why, but I feel better playing them.
Thanks for the Great Report!
Lee-PA

I know how it is to see a Las Vegas favorite disappear. I've lost a lot of them and I hate to see it happen to others. I don't think writing a letter will do any harm. I worry that what you experienced is a trend that will not change. Basic casino economics probably favor a programable game over your favorite dedicated machine. Who knows, we might all end up playing VP at the Plaza because that is where all of our favorite machines went to die? It won't hurt to shop around to see if you feel more comfortable in another casino.

I "THINK" that if you set aside all feelings and emotions, the gaming comission regulates the video poker to the degree that each deck has 52 random cards (unless otherwise stated, such as joker poker) and the only thing that can be manipulated by the casino or game manufacturer is the pay schedule. And if that is true, you should be able chalk this trip up as one of the down sessions is an ongoing series of ups and downs...IN THEORY. Before I ask you to adopt that theory I totally agree with you and Lee that sometimes certain types of machines just don't seem to play well or pay well. And most of those are the multi-game machines. Give me a desktop IGT dedicated VP game anytime.

I have another theory I can throw out. I think that we like our certain brand, set-up, paytable, game type, demomination of video poker. When we find our favorite machine, there is a lot of positive emotions flowing and we play a pretty good session and justify our losses in numbers. When we walk into the situation you experienced, we have absolutely no good karma. We miss our old machine, the pay table is different, the buttons are often in a different spot, and we are skeptical from the start. We have several strikes against our own mental outlook, and therefore we don't play well. We get mad at the first loss, get madder at the second losing hand, and even a win doesn't make us happy. I tried working on this theory with the Oddesy games when they first came out and I tried it on the Rio bar top games. At the Rio, I never did good on Jacks or Better, and I blamed that on distractions of the bar, bartenders, snacks, TVs, Rio Rita, and John with his fruit hat. I actually had many good sessions of gimmick (bonus) VP games. I never could play the Oddesy games smoothly. I was always distracted with the dealer, the stacks of chips, and the touch screen. Bottom line, I think the comfort factor is a big issue.

Joe,
I think your 100% correct with the statement about being in the right mood without distractions and on a proven type of machine you like to play.
I go to Vegas quite often, and there are days when I'm hungover, or just plain sick. Instead of wasting a day in Las Vegas....we play through it. I've never had a winning day when I'm not feeling my best, my sharpist. Now that could change, a royal could be delt to me one day when I'm under the weather (even a blind squriel finds a nut every now and then) but to this date, I never won on sick days.

Mike,

Thanks so much for the trip report. Sorry it did not show you winning more and having fewer disappointments with NYNY. I realize you were a happy camper at NYNY. We had a similar feeling when we felt forced to leave Sam's Town. We wanted to give them another chance, as we were comped well, enjoyed the vp available and also liked the place for many other reasons. We had to admit to ourselves it was time to move on. It takes a period of adjustment but we are now quite happy staying at The Orleans. If things start heading downward, it will probably be time to start looking once again.

Enjoyed hearing about your trip. Happy New Year and happy hunting.

Beth

Mike,

Thanks for the report. We have changes 'homes' in Vegas several times. Sometimes it was because something new cam along. More often, it was something happening like you mention at NYNY. Whatever it was we liked about a certain property changed so it was time to move.

Hopefully you're next trip will be more $ucce$$ful!

I have heard that not only NyNy has changed their vp but so has MGM, Bellagio,Mirage, TI and Golden Nugget. They have replaced all the machines with the coinless ticket payout machines and there are 6/5 JOB and Bonus Poker machines in place of all the full pay machines. I will check out MSS and Caesars next week and see if they also have gotten rid of all the full pay vp. Joe is right, we may all end up at the Plaza. I don't think this can last. There are too many savvy vp players who will abandon a casino if there are no full pay vp machines. I will try to check out Orleans also to see if they still have all the full pay vp.

Mike, I agree with Joe. The only thing the casinos and the manufacturers can tinker with is the payout schedule. The rest of it is just bad luck.

Thanks everyone for your suggests and support. I'm planning to go back in March and will start "home hunting" at that time. It's sad but true that I may need to move on. I probably should try some of the off-Strip places a few time.

I actually DO like the VP choices at the Palms but I'm not so sure about the hotel - my fear is that it will be noisy. But based on how many people on this BB like the Orleans, I ought to give them a shot too.

I emailed Skip Hughes about this experience and he said exactly what you all said - the machines are set okay - it's the pay schedules which are bad. Mine was simply a case of really bad luck. (However, he claims NYNY is still the second best place on the Strip for VP largely because they offer 9/6 JB).)

Still, as a few of you said, if I don't feel lucky I usually don't win.

John - Bellagio has not yet converted to the ticket system and there are several places there that I like the machines (like outside the Fontana lounge). I'm hoping that they just convert these machines to EZ Pay and not replace the entire machine. But as I said in my November report, Bellagio seems to be very tight with their comps.

I did write a letter to the Director of Slots at NYNY and requested that they look at their pay schedules again. We'll see what happens in a few months!

Thanks again, everyone!

Mike thanks for your report, sorry to hear things didn't go so well.

It's discouaging to hear about one strip casino after another lowering the pay scales on VP and lower payouts on blackjack, not to mention cutbacks in comps. But, the off strip casinos seem to be good alternative. I bet you'd do well with room comps at the Orleans or Green Valley Ranch for example.

Ed, I read in a couple of publications that the Orleans has followed suit and has removed the full pay vp and cut back on comps. Seems like they don't want vp players either.
I did note on one of the Travel Channel shows that Dannielle is now at the Palms. She used to be a slot host at the Orleans but left a few months ago. The Orleans is down to one slot host and I guess they figure they don't need anymore than that.

Mike, it sounds like you used up all your luck getting that good rate on the flight.

I don't care if machines have coin-out or ticket-out, but they do have to adhere to the posted pay schedule ...or the State of Nevada would yank their gaming license! I actually like the Multi-Play machines (assuming a decent pay schedule) since I can alternate between games without having to get up<g>.

Have you given thought to WHICH casino you'd switch to if you don't continue with NYNY?

Daisy - I figured I'd do some "scouting" on my next trip to Vegas to see where my new home base might be. It WAS going to be the Orleans but after all the bad things that have been said about it recently, I may have to pass on that. I'm considering the Palms and Green Valley Ranch, mostly because of their excellent VP inventory. While I really love staying on the Strip, maybe it's time I try staying off-Strip for once.

Regarding the letter I sent to NYNY earlier in the month, I got a nice letter back from the VP of Slot Operations there. He said they have been trying to "improve" their slot inventory and installed over 1,000 new slot and VP machines. While he admitted that not all the VP machines have preferential pay tables, they will always keep an inventory of them for those customers who seek them out. He also said that there still are some machines which offer 9/7 Double Bonus (which is what I requested) and that he'd be happy to show me where they are on my next trip. He also said my favorite progressive triple bonus machines are very popular and won't be going away making ME very happy!!).

So, I've booked a trip in March to give NYNY one more try! But I'l probably still do some scouting anyway!

Mike, at least you follow up with a letter when you have a gripe. I just quit giving them my business and bad mouth them every chance I get - both orally and on-line.
I've even made up a nasty story about one casino that treated me poorly. Ah, word of mouth can do wonders........

Mike, if this next trip doesn't work out, let me know and I'll teach you some of my dirty vindictive little tricks.