First it was the gambling odds. Well, we just quit playing. Now the overall experience is just getting to darn expensive.

The typical show price exceeds $100. Eating out if you're on the strip is cost prohibitive. The new Diablos offers bean and cheese burrito's for for $13. Granted they're double stuffed burrito's but how much can bean and cheese cost? A tall cafe Americano at Starbucks on the strip was going for $3.75 while off strip it runs $1.95. There's darn few (if any) gamblers specials anymore as well.

Even the new hotels/casino's just look like big fancy hotels. No life or charachter to them. I guess the baby boomers don't matter and it's the trendy 20 and/or 30 somethings that have all the money and/or lack of brains on how to keep that money in their pockets. Who in their right mind would pay $100 to $300 for a bottle of booze that goes for $30 to $60 at that store?

This past trip we spent two days outside of Vegas in Mt. Charleston and Valley of Fire. Many of our meals were taken off the strip. I guess that when we go to Vegas from now on it will just be to see the lights and look for entertainment and meals somewhere else.

Doug,
There is still plenty of value downtown and at places like Stations and Coast resorts.
The strip has always garnered a higher price for things, just look at room rates over the years...
The strip is going to cater to whoever is paying the bills and it sounds like they know there market, prices are not going down as you pointed out in your post. Maybe it's time to re-evaluate what group you belong too, and where you want to be. I for one don't enjoy being with that same 20-30 something crowd of loud drunks on the strip, yelling because they can crowd.
Do we enjoy Ceasars...yes, would I pay full asking price for what they have to offer...NOWAY!
So if you find that things arn't to your liking, find a new casino, a new area, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water, find a new place to bathe!
We start out on the strip and split our vacation and move downtown where it's easier on our wallet.
M2C

M2C

Did you take a trip recently? I'd enjoy hearing the trip report.

I agree with you that they typical tourist would encounter what you described. The nightclubs are popping up left and right. There is no doubt who the target audience is. So my theory, is let them pay the bills.

I was angry with the odds of the games, and now I'm pretty much over it. I'm happy with my theory that the machine has odds too, the machine has more of a long term average than me, and those big banana payouts happen just as often on a 9/6 as an 8/5 or 7/5. I don't encourage anyone to embrace my theories. I am just glad I found a play that I am comfortable with.

As far as food and shows, again, let the kids pay the bills. There are PLENTY of bargains for shows. There are PLENTY of good meals at good prices. If you want to eat at top tier restaurants and see top tier shows, that's another story.

Now that I live here, I don't travel near as much as I used to. When I did travel a lot, it "seemed to me" that any tourist destination would have inflated prices. I can't speak for Six Flags, Disneys, The Fishermans Warf, Broadway, etc., but I would guess that more often than not, prices would be higher than your local Kansas equivalent.

I'm not saying Las Vegas hasn't changed. It has changed and not in the direction I would have chosen. I think that in realistic terms, Las Vegas is still a relatively cheap destination. Anyone who knows anything about Diablos, knows that the $13 pays for a lot more than bean and cheese. And if you can get a good meal at a prime destination with a great view and have the decor and waitresses like Diablos, that's not a bad deal. I can get a Fatburger meal for $13, be 5 miles from the nearest casino, be served by an illegal immigrant, and have a view of a tire store.

I think that if you wander around aimlessly as an average tourist, you can spend a lot more money than if you are an informed tourist (as we all are) and know where to look for what we want. And if we don't know where to find it, we can ask in places like this.

The good old days are long gone, but it's still Las Vegas!

It all comes down to choice, Doug, and we all have different ideas of when and where we're willing to pony up the big bucks.

I won't stay at a strip hotel unless they give me a good rate, often "earned" by my play at that companys off-strip location. For example, I will be staying at Paris next month, not because I played there but because I've built up enough brownie points from Harrahs in Reno. Heck, I don't like the gambling at any Harrahs property in Las Vegas, but I will put in a minimum of play there just to let them know I visit Las Vegas .. and hopefully keep my sunfish offers coming. If I were paying rack rate, there is no way I'd pay over $100 for a night at Paris when I could stay at either the Orleans or Sam's Town for under $50.

LOL, I cringe when I pay $100+ for a show, but I also bite the bullet when it's something unique like KA or Phantom, just because I want to experience something different. The same curiosity has taken me to less expensive venues like Mac King, the Titanic exhibit, Forever Plaid, the Drifters ... and to a host of free lounge shows. I don't feel a need to see any shows on my next trip because $100 is taking both MamaDeuces and me to a couple of shows at a local repertory theatre in November. If the gambling gods are nice, I might hit another Cirque show, but I'll be just as happy listening to some good ole oldies in the Bally's lounge.

I think there is still good gambling in Las Vegas, but you have to look for whatever fits your style. I enjoy driving and gawking at the sights along the way, so a trip to north Las Vegas is no problem, and I enjoy gambling at SunCoast, Rampart, Santa Fe, Fiesta and the Cannery in that area. I like my choices at Sam's Town on the Boulder Highway -and even at Sunset and GVR, although my luck seems to be non-existant there<g>. Heading west, there are still good choices for me at SouthPoint, Gold Coast and Orleans. There are places I'll gamble on the strip but usually because I'm there for some other reason like a show or dinner. Your gaming tastes would be different, but I'd still bet you could find something you like somewhere along that route.

Eating in Las Vegas can still be inexpensive - all of the gambling places I mentioned have decent comps for sunfish like me, and I've had a lot of free meals in my wandering. I do enjoy a good steak in a nice atmosphere, but those freebies bring the average meal cost down. I've had some moderate but excellent meals at a variety of Italian restaurants, and there is a lot of good "pub grub" that I've just begun to explore.

I certainly agree with you that gambling on the strip has gone from bad to worse and that prices have sky-rocketed there, but I also think you could find some alternatives you would enjoy with a bit of exploration.

Well, Well Well....
I/We have been stating this for quite a few years now! Sure, I may be older and now have a fair amount of money to spend but my mind set is still a few years behind today's date! I still long for the days of yesteryear when we first started to visit Las Vegas and availed ourselves of $1.99 buffets, $25 dollar (or often comped) rooms along with one or two dollar blackjack tables all over everywhere. We used to stay out on the strip at the Riviera and/or the Sahara when they were in places to stay...We, a long time ago figured that downtown was more our cup of tea now. Would you believe that at one time there were NO chairs at the slot machines and jackpots of ten bucks or so were handpays?....Things will change for all the younger ones that may be reading this....
Would you also believe that there were good lounges shows that did not cost even a drink and had some top-notch entertainers? They were either on their way up or way down but still free and pretty good!!

The problem is we just really don't care for downtown. The one time we were booked into a downtown hotel (Lady Luck) I was impressed that EVERYTHING was screwed down to a table or the wall. The pictures were literally screwed into the walls, the lamps were screwed down to the table and even the remote control was screwed down to the night stand. Yet, they did NOT provide a room safe for our belongings. Impressed we were not.

We do go downtown but mostly to people watch. The panhandling homeless alcoholics are always interesting. Then there's always some guy with a sign about sex, gambling and/or drinking being against the lord. Watching the so-drunk-they-puke while their walking people are almost as fun as watching the not-paying-attention people who slide on afore mentioned puke. Then there's the smoked elderly people (does that smell EVER leave them or their clothes) with the huge wads of bills they pull from their pockets in front of everyone. Let's not forget the crack whores plying their trade in the darker recesses around Freemont street. But probably the most interesting ones to watch/track are the security guards hired to keep the riff-raff under control. They a lot of fun to watch when they feel the need to intimidate someone.

Sorry, downtown's cost might be more my speed but I still don't feel safe there. Cops on bikes, private security guards in black and having to constantly remind my wife to NOT walk along the walls secondary to the homeless and wall rats just ain't my cup of tea.

Until the bottom drops out and the kiddies with more money that brains quit coming to Vegas I'm afraid Vegas is just going to be to expensive for the 3 to 4 trips per year we use to do. This year was the first in a few we've been twice and I doubt we'll do two trips in one year anytime soon.

On the other hand off strip restaurants are seeing considerably more of my money (love the Egg and I for breakfast) and we'll be visiting the out of town attractions a little bit more. For now we'll just go once a year, look at the pretty new hotels and keep our money in out pockets and out of the machines.

Eventually the bubble will burst and the free spending ultra lounge goers will have to buckle down and work for a living. At that point maybe Vegas will work a little harder to get the gamblers back into town instead of the ultra lounge clubbers. By then they may have to work a lot harder as there's plenty of compitition out there for the gambling dollar and more on it's way. Vegas has always been resession proof in the past. I'm not so certain it will be in the future should the continue to getaway from gambling and concentrate more on every other avenue of income.

Pass the word...... STAY OFF THE STRIP!

The bargains there are all just about non-existant.

Here are the few exceptions that I have been able to find ....

$1 Blackjack at the Slot-O-Fun on the south side of Circus Circus. Only one table and it's usually full but it's the only $1 game on the Strip. And.... the cocktail waitresses treat you exceptionally well.

The Slots-O-Fun craps table has a low minimum too (less than $5) and it's usually crowded but worth the wait.

Get the Fun Book at the Circus Circus doornear Slot-O-Fun and use the BJ and beer coupons for extra value.

Support this place and avoid the others if you really want ot send a message to the Srip Casinos.

Cheapest beer on the Strip is the $1 bottle of Michelob (?) at Casino Royale.

Look for the "free" tickets in the vicinity of Harrah's for an afternoon magic or comedy show. "Free" means that you might have to buy an overpriced drink once inside the venue. Most time "free" means $10 or less.

Pull the slot for a discount ticket or possibly free ticket to see an afternoon magic show or the Follies Bergere at the Tropicana. This offer is outside the front entrance unless the weather is real bad.

And that's about it, folks! ...... Unless you sign up for one of the Casinos' "fun cards". Your initial signup should give you $10 to $50 free slot play.

Get that card at The Wynn and you get $10 free slot play in most any slot machine in the joint. But at Casino Royale you have to play designated machines. And my idea of "designated" is "fixed to pay as little as humanly possible".

If you don't gamble much. simply ask the Fun Card Desk Personnel if you get free play once you sign up. If they say, "NO!", just say thanks and walk away.

But if you play a lot, you'd be a fool not to use that card. I really don't play too much but I sure get lots of comps in return. I never have to Christmas shop no more. ANd I get three pulls a week on a $12,000,000 machine and $5 free each week to use on most slots in the house.

If YOU really want ot make a difference and make things head in a better direction ... Pass the word and STAY OFF THE STRIP except for the above exceptions.

Please let me know if you have any other valuable suggestions that would make me head back to Las Vegas Blvd. I'd hate to over look tehm here.

Not on the Strip but close enough ...... Great food bargains at Ellis Island. I love this place andt he beer they serve! Plus you get a comped $5 Blackjack coupon once you finish all your dinner.

Quoted from above.... :rolleyes:
We do go downtown but mostly to people watch. The panhandling homeless alcoholics are always interesting. Then there's always some guy with a sign about sex, gambling and/or drinking being against the lord. Watching the so-drunk-they-puke while their walking people are almost as fun as watching the not-paying-attention people who slide on afore mentioned puke. Then there's the smoked elderly people (does that smell EVER leave them or their clothes) with the huge wads of bills they pull from their pockets in front of everyone. Let's not forget the crack whores plying their trade in the darker recesses around Freemont street. But probably the most interesting ones to watch/track are the security guards hired to keep the riff-raff under control. They a lot of fun to watch when they feel the need to intimidate someone.


Sorry, downtown's cost might be more my speed but I still don't feel safe there. Cops on bikes, private security guards in black and having to constantly remind my wife to NOT walk along the walls secondary to the homeless and wall rats just ain't my cup of tea.
Quoted from Dougs reply above...

Sorry that you feel that way, but you have spoken like a person that is better off out in the high priced protected land of the strip? I have been in the downtown area for many years and I have yet to see many of the things you write of? Please stay away from downtown or do not pass on hearsay items...I am sure glad that there are non of the items you speak of out on the strip.... :rolleyes: ...

It looks like we have two extreme views of downtown, and that keeps things interesting. My views/memories are somewhere in the middle - I have seen some but not all of the things Doug mentions, and I feel safe as long as I stay under the FSE canopy, BUT I no longer walk even from MSS to Fremont St. unless there are a LOT of people on that one block. Security doesn't seem to hang out there, but there are enough young "gang-banger" types (and some of the others Doug mentioned) hanging around that I don't feel comfortable walking there any more. The undesirable element certainly isn't limited to downtown, but there is certainly more safety in the numbers of people walking the strip.

Thank You Irish!

I too have never seen much downtown, that I haven't already seen on the strip before. If anyone thinks they don't have a drug problem on the strip or crime on the strip, or prostitues plying thier trade on the strip, or in those big casinos, your sadly mistaken.

Maybe the strip has a better class of bum begging for a ciggerette? But a bum is a bum is a bum.

And rats....well lets just say, I've seen an extra large amount of traps (actually bait boxes) for it not to be a problem on the strip. Roaches....oh yeah, they got them on the strip too! Holly rollers, they are everywhere, that preach from a street corner, they are not exclusive to downtown, or Las vegas, or even Nevada!
Which brings me to another point... I'll bet these same type folks are in your home town as well, they are in mine. Heck, we got private security in our hotels, and stores and at events. I'll even bet, thier are people with a drug habit in your town, people who drink too much, and probably some homeless, and a few crazy people thrown into the mix as well. Please don't think these people don't exist, just because you choose not to see them, for they are THERE!

I'll tell you what I've never run into downtown?
Smut peddlers pushing those cards in your hand as you walk by. Or mounds of trash in the gutter from above mentioned smut peddlers.

One last item, and this is just us. But I've met more REAL people downtown, and had some very interesting conversations with the nicest people. I guess, what I'm trying to say is, friendly, which I'll take any ole day over snutty snots trying to be someone they arn't.
Now that last remark was not intended to insult anyone that enjoys the strip, I'm not saying that all are that way or even any percentage. I'm just saying, I have a more enjoyable gambling experiance downtown and at the locals places. But I do enjoy the strip, and I spend time there as well.
M2C

Daisy, those same gang bangers get a bus ticket and are on the strip. Looking for an easy mark, or just an opertunity. We see them in the big hotels too, at the clubs.

From where I come from, I see a lot.

Good point, Lee ... I sure don't have to travel anywhere to see gang bangers.

I made that comment because I wanted to walk from MSS down to Fremont St one night about 9-10 pm - and that block was deserted except for a group of gang bangers that did indeed look like they were looking for an easy mark. That same gang could easily be found on the strip, but I would have been much more comfortable with a couple hundred people around - instead I headed right back into MSS.

It really doesn't matter if you're downtown, on the strip, the Boulder Highway, the Orleans or your home town - ya gotta keep your eyes open and sometimes err on the side of caution.

Irish,

I'll try to remember to take pictures for you next time. I'll see if I can locate the Youtube video from the new area off Freemont. The guy shouting MF'er really adds a touch of class to it.

The things I've described are not hearsay. I've seen them all. I don't have that great of an imagination.

As for the strip, your right, it is getting a little more dangerous. I think it's been only been three or four weeks ago that Diablos had it's windows shot out. It hasn't been that long since a car plowed into a crowd at the corner of Harmon and LV Blv either.

Here you go. A link to a video posted on Youtube from the new Freemont East. Sort of impressive if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADBs_a-Tpy8

WOW, yawn...
What I seen and heard was a couple of guys that had way too much to drink in the backround. Along with video of families with childern walking, how scary could it be.
As for the foul mouth guys, well, you must have your ears closed when you walk by margaritaville at night...LOL Or maybe you haven't heard the ruckus outside any of those clubs on the strip at closing time! LOL
Come on, give it up, why bash Vegas.
It's the area that we live in. I don't like it, but it's not going to stop me from enjoying myself.

Daisy,
You can't go on vacation and leave your common sense behind! It happens at Disney, it happens at six flags, it happens at sea world. Any attraction that draws people will draw a certin amount of people willing to do you ill will.
I'm guessing we agree on this.
I'm not afraid of downtown or the strip. But I do keep an eye pealed for possible trouble, as I do everyday of my life, everywhere I go.
nuff said....

After watching the video, I went back and re-read Doug's post, especially the first line, and something clicked into focus. I would probably feel the same way about downtown if I had only stayed there once at the Lady Luck.

I did stay at the Lady Luck back around 1990, and I did the walk over to Fremont Street from the Lady, but there were a lot of "normal" people on that block back then ... my safety-in-numbers theory. The Lady Luck went downhill fast in the 90s, and I no longer felt comfortable walking over there, but I still would walk from Fremont over to MSS until a couple of years ago. Now, I restrict my walking to under the Fremont Street canopy, and I only valet park. I want no part of those downtown garages, but I feel that way about a lot of other casino garages in Las Vegas, both on and off the strip.

IMO, if you stick to Fremont Street or MSS, you will see downtown from Irish and Lee's point of view . If you wander even 1 short block off that route, you will get into the scenes described by Doug and shown in that video.

Daisy,

We hit downtown at least once every trip. Lady Luck is the only hotel we've ever had a reservation at and we only walked into the room, we did not actually stay there. That trip was on a promotion where air fare and hotel were paid for. We took the free air but booked our own hotel. We had to check into the LL to get our deposit back so we checked out the room while we were there.

Each trip downtown we've seen things I have yet to witness on the strip. All of what I've posted above I have seen with my own eyes. If I wanted to exegerate I'd have done a little bit better job of it.

Towards the middle of Freemont there's a band stand. Excellent place to people watch. Last trip there was a family, mother father and little girl. Mom and pop had enough in them to have a really good time while little sister sat on the street in her skirt eating a hot dog off a paper plate. Great parenting skills those two had. The homeless are always getting hassled by black shirted security guards. That's no longer a challenge to find or see.

Hey, if downtown's your thing that's not problem. The prices are cheaper and there's more bargains to be had. As for the gambling I'm not convinced it's much better than the strip any more. Most of the full pay VP we could find was gone a couple of years back. However we haven't looked at the gaming in a couple of years so who knows, it could be better.

Granted the prices of the meals are less expensive and there's still bargains downtown. We both got ill after eating Lanni's steak and two tails special a couple of years ago and have been somewhat gun shy since. Normally we'll have at least one dinner at Pasta Pirate but skipped it this past trip for whatever reason.

Golden Nugget, on the other hand, is the class of the strip. If all properties would upgrade themselves along those lines and if they'd clean the riff raff off of Freemont St. it might be a better place to hang out. But, if they did that the prices would probably be comparable to the strip. So maybe that's not a good idea.

There are those that love downtown, those that don't care for it and those that hate it. We're really in the don't care much or it group but I wouldn't say we hate it. It's just not someplace I want to hang out while on a weeks vacation.

If you don't see the things I've metioned then you need to head downtown at night and just walk around watching people. If worse comes to worse grab a Krispy Kreme donut and a drink and sit out on their patio for an hour or two.

Like I said, next time I'll try to snap a few pics and add it to our Webshots page. I'm sure if you love downtown you'll discount it and say it's not so bad. That's fine. That's your comfort level. It's not everyone's comfort level though and a group of drunks walking around yelling obsenities surely is below my comfort level.

When you get right down to it downtown is having trouble surviving. My guess is there's a lot more people who stay away from this seedy area of Vegas than not.

Lee,

You must not have seen the shot of the guy standing in the middle of the street with his apparent 44 ounce bottle of what I assume was beer (judging by how he was standing) tipped up to the sky draining the last drop from the bottom. Great shot if you're looking for it. Nothing new if you're not paying attention.

In the FWIW column, bad parenting skills are everywhere in Vegas. Here's a picture I snapped of what I believe to be a mother and her two boys (at least they left together eventually). If you notice, the boys are actually playing baseball indoors. Yes that one is tossing a ball and yes the other one has a bat and is attempting to hit the ball. Fortunately the one with the bat is no A-rod or Barry Bonds.



I know I may be a little unusual but these are the types of things I notice when I'm walking around. I'm not always looking at the lights, games or things set up to attract your attention. I can often be found watching the people rather than the sites.

Doug, I fail to see what taking and posting more pictures or videos will prove. I don't think there is anything you can take of a picture of(in regards to people and behavioral patterns) downtown that you can't find on the strip. And I'd bet it can be found in 49 other states in this country.

The same things goes for that bad food episode. You got sick once and blame the whole area? It's a good thing nobody gets sick on the strip.

It still baffles my mind every time I see Diablos. I think of your story. It is a new place, on a piece of land valued at approx $25 mil per acre, it is fancy, it has beautiful women in costume, and is the trendiest pub and grub in the area. I think, "just how much did he expect to pay for a meal?" And it doesn't matter that it was a burrito. Never mind that a burrito goes for $11 at NYNY. It could be a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. it could be a White Castle burger. It's a fancy joint, and without your post, I would have guessed one would be lucky to walk in and find any meal on the menu under $15.

About the bad gambling odds. I get it. It's factual. It put a very sour taste in my mouth too. And much of it happened after I decided to move here. I still don't like it. There's nothing I can do about it, so I move on.

Do you think there is any possibility that because you have that sour taste on gambling that you are letting it clutter your thought patterns? This is TalkVegas. And you are free to express your opinions without censorship and you don't have to be a lemming. OTOH, others are free to reply. You've been here a long time, participated in a lot of good conversations, and it's all appreciated. I'd hate to see you paint yourself into a corner over nothing.

About your baseball picture. Is that the Revolution area of the Mirage?