New Canadian casino attracts crowds of New York gamblers.

When a Canadian race track minutes from Buffalo opened a long-awaited casino,
Americans wasted no time in crossing the border to try their luck.

Hunter Interests, a consultant hired by the city to study the economic impact of
gambling in Buffalo, estimated last year that slots at the Fort Erie Race Track in Fort Erie, Ontario, could generate $200 million (American) in revenue annually. A more conservative estimate was $130 million, The Buffalo News reported.

The race track slots will compete for American business with Casino Niagara in
Niagara Falls, Ontario, which gets half to 80 percent of its business from Americans,
according to estimates.

"This highlights and shows the great demand for gaming," [Buffalo Mayor Anthony] Masiello said. "It's a lot of our money to support the Canadian government. We get all the problems and none of the benefits."

More than 10 million people spent $650.8 million in Canadian dollars at Casino
Niagara last year, according to the Ontario Casino Corp., the government agency that
oversees Canada's casinos.

The possibility of casino gambling in Buffalo remains unclear. The state
Legislature is in no rush to restart the constitutional process that would lead to state-authorized casino gambling, and the Seneca Nation of Indians is split on whether toopen high-stakes bingo halls with video slots near its reservations or whether to explore the possibility of opening casinos in Niagara Falls, N.Y., and Buffalo.

Masiello has said gambling would immediately attract the number of people necessary to continue downtown's revival.




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gail@talkvegas.com
Moderator, TalkVegas After Hours
Administrator, TalkVegas BB

Gail: I've never been to Casino Niagra but know lots of people who have, and they all say it's very nice, and everyone always remarks on how crowded it is, and I know it has become very successful.

Since the gamblers are crossing the border to contribute to the Canadian economy, I think Buffalo has no choice but to have their own casino and try to keep the dollars on our side of the border and flowing into the Buffalo/Niagra Falls US economy. Makes sense to me, anyway.

Since I only joined TalkVegas today - this is my first post, but I couldn't let this "Canadian" thread go by without a few comments.

The new Casino at Fort Erie Racetrack is merely 1,200 slots - no tables, no video poker. Virtually all race tracks in Ontario have (or will soon have) slots - quarter, dollar and $5. It's to counteract their losses caused by Casino Windsor, Casino Rama (an hour north of Toronto),Casino Niagara and the 4 new "charity" casinos in Thunder Bay, Sault Ste. Marie, Sarnia (opening this week) and Brantford (opening next month). Charity means part of the profit will go to charities (since they lost their ability to raise money through roving 2-3 temproary casinos) and these casinos will have generally lower table limits than the Big 3 casinos where $25 minimums are the norm for BJ, roulette, Let it Ride, Craps, etc. ($10 or $15 min. if it's really slow or there's a snowstorm).

Our illustrious provincial government takes 15% off the top and has reversed their decision that there will only be 3 casinos in Ontario. And their 15% is BIG money.

My husband and I go have gone to Casino Niagara an average of twice a week since it opened 21 months ago. It's not bad looking for a temporary casino - on three floors (middle floor non-smoking)with almost 3,000 machines - but less than 200 are video poker.

When it first opened, we were in Heaven - we had over $55,000 in vp and $1 slot jackpots in the first few months. Then the changes came. You'd see a bank of slots or vp shut down for "servicing" for a a day or so. Then another bank, then another....

Jackpots for regular players are now rare and far between. And there's a few more reasons we "quit" Casino Niagara two weeks ago, such as:

Parking ranges anywhere from $8 to $25 CDN ($5 to $17 US)unless you have a "Gold" Players Advantage Card. The parking rates seem to change daily according to what the market will bear. Sometimes Valet is $25, or $15, or $10 or even free in the dead of winter (when the self park is $8-$10)!

There is virtually no full pay vp, no nickel vp, no progressive vp and to get a choice of .25 or .50 vp you have to be very lucky or very early.

None of the "fun" games either - except for .25 Reel'em In (only 4 of them until a few weeks ago when about 12 more were added; only 6 .25 Piggy Bankin' (6 .50 and 6 $1 ones were added three weeks ago), a few .25 Filthy Rich, but no other Williams games like Jackpot Party, White Shark, Life of Leisure, etc.

About 6 months ago Niagara added their first nickel machines - 4 Boom and 4 Reel'em'In - and about 20 nickel GameMakers with only two choices - Reel Gems and Jumpin' Jokers - what a waste of time IF you can get a seat. They just added another couple of dozen nickels - Boom, Reel'em, Super 8 Racer, Black Rhino, Goldmine and some more two-game GameMakers. Having played nickels extensively last year in Biloxi and Michigan's Kewadin casinos, I KNOW that the payout percentages on these are very, very low (but no published payouts for Ontario casinos - I'd "guess" at less than 80% overall on a combination of all denominations).

Other reasons not to venture above the 49th parallel:

Drinks are NEVER comped - not while playing or in restaurants. Beer and wine are $4.50 ($3 US) and higher for other drinks.

Although Niagara gives .5% cashback, you can get ripped off very easily. For example, my best friend had 769 points showing on her card ($7,690 of action, $10=1 point) last Sunday. She asked to have her parking ticket ($15) comped and was told "No problem". Then she asked for her $35 cashback and the booth attendant told her the parking comp had wiped out her cashback.

Four days earlier, her boyfriend had driven into the Parkade that shows "Clearance 6'8" and when he got to the 5th floor of parking, the top of the cab of his new $35K Ford Pickup was creased by a large, new EXIT sign that was hung only 6 feet off the ground. Since he was driving towards the 1/2" edge of the bottom of the sign at the end of an aisle he didn't see it. When he mentioned it to the parking kiosk attendant, she called a supervisor who said "We are not responsible - read our parking signs!" Our friend reminded the supervisor that they are not responsible for "lost or stolen property" and the clearance is supposed to be well over 6 feet. Then three security personel arrived and were not very pleased that our firend wanted to talk to someone higher up the food chain. No one would even walk out to the parking lot to look at the truck or the low-haning sign.

Fortunatley, our friend installed a custom staircase for one of the casino executives who finally returned a call after a few days and he will "look into it". BTW, four days later the sign was still only 6' off the ground and resting on top of a parked van.

Food comps are only good only for play shown per day and cannot be carried over to the next visit. I once had a marathon session of vp where I got cashback of over $200 ($40,000 of action) and was offered a $40 comp to The Market (upscale cafeteria where food is cooked at stations)where dinner entrees are $9.95-$14.95. The "fine dining" at Farfalle is very nice, but where we used to get mailed invitations for dinner for 2 at Farfalle, you now have to show mega play and ask for a Farfalle comp. The lack of competition has ruined this place. And the coffee shop - Perks - is remarkable for three reasons:
1. There are no chairs - you stand to eat.
2. The prices are exhorbitant - shrinkwrapped sandwiches for $4.50 plus tax, and therefore....
3. Money hardly ever changes hands. The only people who go there are taking their $20 or $30 max comps and loading up paper bags on their way out of the casino.

We leave for the Golden Nugget on October 8th and I have sworn off Ontario casinos until there is somewhere here that gives you a decent gamble.

Oh, and the real kicker: On our last visit, both my husband and I did not see a cocktail waitress for over three hours (playing $1 slots and .50 vp). We went through over $1,000 with no hits of more than 50 coins on the slots, 100 on Joker vp (4 of a kind) and as I was in line to get my cashback, my husband was standing 10 feet away in the middle of an aisle looking around, when he was told by a young female slot attendant "Move along, you can't stand here and watch the "high rollers". He was 30 feet away from the closest high roller - a woman playing $5 Wild Cherry. In fact, in the entire "high roller" area there were only three people playing the over sixty $5 machines. We were both well dressed and probably would have wasted our cashback on the $5 slots (a ritual) but we walked out and booked our flight to Vegas.

Our $20,000 to $40,000 of action per week will not be missed at Niagara, but it will be appreciated in Vegas. Even though we will be paying $1.50 CDN for each US dollar and spending a full day travelling to and from LV, it's worth it to get a fair chance at FPVP and to be able to get something to drink while playing. And I am looking forward to Slot Clubs that let you know what your cashback and comps actually cost.

Sorry for this long ramble, but "The best revenge is success" and if I can save someone some hard-earned sheckels by speaking the truth, I've done my ggod deed for the day. (I hope to be rewarded in Heaven, or at the Nugget).

If anyone requires further information on Casino Niagara or Casion Rama, just ask.

ArleneV
Stoney Creek, ON Canada

Arlene,
So, I take it you don't like the Canadian Casino's? <VBG>
I personally have never felt they where anything close to a fair gamble. Thanks for the long rambling post (your words, not mine). Differnt views of differnt places are what make this BB what it is.
Thanks for taking the time to post, this may open a few eyes.

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Lee-PA
Moderator, What's New Forum
lee@talkvegas.com

Arlene, Welcome to TalkVegas!! And thank you so much for your post. You definitely gave a lot of information that will help others decide if they ever want to go to these casinos.

Funny thing is, Las Vegas will do the same thing if they can get away with it. No competition is really the worse thing for all of us. And that would really frost me-- charging to self-park at a casino-- with the money they are making.

Thanks again for the post and I hope you stick around!

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gail@talkvegas.com
Moderator, TalkVegas After Hours
Administrator, TalkVegas BB

Arlene, BTW, I hope you have a great trip in October! With the action you give, you should have no problem getting comps here <g>.

Hope you decide to write a trip report when you return from your Oct. trip.

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gail@talkvegas.com
Moderator, TalkVegas After Hours
Administrator, TalkVegas BB




[This message has been edited by gailsacco (edited September 14, 1999).]

Arlene: Glad to see you here on Talk Vegas.

Thank you so much for your views on the Canadian casinos. As for Casino Niagra, I didn't post any of the particulars, such as prices of food, cost to park, etc, that I know of, because I have heard many different versions of the prices. Now I know why since those costs vary, as you noted.

The Golden Nugget is one of my favorite Las Vegas hotels, and I have stayed there many times. If you have any questions, just ask. For good VP, try Main Street Station--it's in downtown Las Vegas too and not too far of a walk from the GN.

Arlene, Welcome to Talk Vegas ...your first post is fantastic info! I have cousins living in Stoney Creek and Burlington, and I will be sure they see your post. We really haven't discussed the casino situation up north, but I suspect they may share your opinions since they also love to visit Las Vegas.

Hope you have a great trip to Las Vegas, and I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay at the Golden Nugget.


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Daisy-Beyond Vegas Moderator
daisy@talkvegas.com