I've been practicing double double bonus at home, especailly since sitting next to a woman last month who hit quad aces plus the kicker.

This week had to lecture in Cooperstown. And I needed gas to get home. And the gas is cheaper at the Oneida nation stations (cuts out the taxes) So of course I needed to take a gaming and dinner break at Turning Stone (Like all those excuses?)

The Oneida Nation was kind enough to start me off with $10 comp play. So I decided to try double double bonus. On the second hand I hit quad 8's.

Now I felt like a low roller version of Mike - do I stop or keep going? Its even harder to manage, because there's no TITO. You just put money on a card. I decided to cash out the winnings and return to the machine to play my original planned stake.

Ended up hitting 4 3's with the kicker, and 4 aces. Entirely too much fun, even with a lousy pay table.

For variety, I played deuces, and did hit 5oak (which annoyingly pays 50 coins)

I played a while, ate dinner, and took some money home.

My question for all of you who play double double bonus. How do you go back to playing bonus poker? I guess DDB is more volatile, with the even money return on the 2 pair. How is it more volitle than other bonus games? Maybe this goes under the "gambling" topic, but I'd enjoy seeing a discusion of the pro's and cons of DDB versus other bonus games.

IMHO, whether I get 8 or 9 for a full house is not that big of deal on the paytable, but the payout for 2 pair is a big deal.

A typical session of bonus poker for me usually includes 2 4oks. My DDB sessions probably average below 1 on 4oks. I attribute some of this to the definition of what my session is, but much of it is because I lose money on those 2 pairs which shortens my sessions.

I still play DDB sometimes. Sometimes I'll sit down at a multigame machine and look at the paytables for all of the high risk poker games. Knowing that the majority of my hands will be 3ok or less on these games, and that I am only playing to hit one of those top bananas, why play DDB when I can play something more abstract such as triple bonus and get bigger bananas?

I confess that I often play the high risk games at a lower denomination. Just last week at the Palms, I hit 4 aces with the kicker on a nickel Triple bonus, and it paid the same as a royal, $200. Still, I am smart enough to know that I could have lost my $20 investment just as easy and that I would have been lucky just to take any win.

Being a local with the temptation to play every day might influence my definition of a session and the way I view the volatility of a game. I am very comfortable with Bonus Poker. I usually feel like I can take a small profit that covers my meal that day. But if I lose, I can rack it up as an expensive meal. Playing DDB puts me in a situation where I have many more losses. The big bananas are spread so thin that I can't really work them into the daily budget. Instead, those big wins get blown on big ticket items, and my daily budget is still in the negative.

I am happy for you that you had a nice introduction to the game that built your confidence. I hope that you don't get big headed about it and think that that was a normal session. That game is very capable of sucking down $500 before you get your first cocktail. It is not uncommon to lose a $100 bill before you hit anything higher than a 3ok. I think DDB is fine for those with deep pockets and fewer opportunites to play. That way, if they win, they win big, but if they lose, it is well within their budget.

With that said, I am still practicing Joker Poker and find it to be volatile, but not near as expensive as DDB. I started out playing nickels, one at a time to help learn the game. I advanced to 5 nickels at a time and then started playing one quarter at a time. I am getting more comfortable, but rarely play 5 quarters at a time.

You just reminded me that I need to start practicing. Were going out the end of May and I got to get mind back on poker.
I've got Dancers game on my computer and that does help to get back in mental shape.
Were play DDB because of the payoffs seemed to be higher that basic poker?

Chris, I just wanted to try a different game, and was inspired by seeing the lady hit 4 aces with the kicker.

JMT - very wise comment about not getting big headed about a winning session - its just so darn hard when its your first session ever playing that particular game! But I gotta just keep my goal in mind - do I want to play a long time, or play a more volitle (ie exciting) game, and be ready to go home or go to the hotel room or just take a walk once my budget is done.

Congrats on a great session, Kes. LOL, somehow I have a problem imagining you getting a fat head from a winning VP session.

My approach is kind of the direct opposite from JMT (surprise!) ... I prefer DDB due to the excitement of the game, but if I'm getting cleaned out, I'll switch to Bonus Poker. If that game doesn't slow the drain, I go looking for a penny video slot or a nap<g>.

Kes,

It's similar to picking a slot machine.

The slots with the really big payoffs (like DDB)will have less small hits. In the long run, they'll drain your money if you don't get lucky and hit the big one(s). The slots with smaller jackpots will typically give you more play without draining your bankroll.

Kes - Congrats on a great session - good for you!

I'm almost always playing DDB now and rarely go back to Double Bonus unless there's a progressive involved with it. Like Daisy said, I like the excitement of the game and the prospect of getting a nice jackpot if I happen to hit those Aces with a kicker, or even 2's, 3's, 4's with a kicker.

thanks for all the congrats.

Mike, glad you mentioned Double Bonus. If one were to move from Bonus Poker to another bonus game, why not go straight to DDB, rather than Double Bonus? They both only return even money on the 2 pair, right?

My one evening of lucky play has already yielded a mailing from Turning Stone, arrived today. They upped my weekly free play from $10 to $15, and added one free night per week in the Inn at Turning Stone.

Those places sure do want their money back!

Kes, you might want to move to Double Bonus because it's a positive game - over 100% payback with perfect strategy.

Having said that, I find myself less and less interested in Double Bonus because I find that perfect strategy rather difficult and requiring much more practice<g>. I'd much rather play Deuces Wild as a bridge between DDB and Bonus since it's also 100+% and has much easier strategy ... at least it's easier for me.

Kes - Sometimes I'll play Double Bonus if the pay schedule is 9/7 or even 10/7, which as Daisy said, is actually a positive game. Yes, it still pays even money on the pair, but that's okay.

Most of the Bonus Poker games I encounter in Vegas have bad paybacks on the Full House - usually 7 - so I avoid those.

But still - I'm very hooked on DDB and play that a lot now.

Is double bonus being a positive game dependent on a decent paytable, or just on playing perfect strategy?

Both, and it doesn't take much of a deviation on either to bring it down to negative. That is one reason it is less popular. Many people wont take the time to find the positive version or learn it because there are so many little things to learn for perfect play. If they don't learn them, it's a negative game.

I have found that a lot of times when I can't seem to hit good on any game, I can go to double bonus machine and just play a basic stategy and squeak out a 4ok pretty quick. It doesn't always pay for the session. It often takes the sting off of the loss though. And if I don't get a 4ok on it, it's been a bad day anyway, so that particular investment wasn't such a big deal.

Say why were on the subject. My wife and I sat down at the bar at the Mirage. We both start to play VP and asked for drinks (comped of course). As I go to put my money in I check out the payouts and realize there's somethin amiss.

I double check to make sure and realize the machines are slightly slanted. In Bob Dancers game and any other machine I've played you need to insert 5 coins to hit the jackpot 4 A's, Royals, etc.

These machines required an extra coin in to get to that payoff point. I told my wife 'these drinks are anything but free if you need to put an extra coin in to win the same jackpot you get on a five coin machine.

I stopped playing immediately and finished my drink.

Are all these casinos doing this now at the bars, requiring more coin in for the same payouts?

So - it was a six coin max machine? I have heard about a 10 coin max machine, but thought it meant a proportionally larger jackpot.
But if the rest of the payoff was the same on your six coin machine, that is really depressing news!

One, are you sure it was just a six coiner? I think I know the bar your talking about, but it's actually a 10 coiner, but the payscale screen is split so it shows 1 thru 5 and what you get on the 10th coin drop?
Was the bar circular in shape, kinda like a horseshoe, with out seating in a small portion?

But it's buyer beware on every VP machine. Always read the glass/screen before investing your hard earned money! I don't know if it's done to trick you, or just done because some players just don't care or know? This same rule applies to blackjack, slots, anywhere on any game that can be altered by tweeking the rules.