OK, here goes.

This topic is for any u vs n-u discussion but I want to bring up bartenders in this town.

The going wage for a union bartender is $13.50/hr. Non-union is usually between $5 and $6/hr. In general, I think the service at casino bars(union) is crappy while non-casino bars(non-union) tends to be better. I can't tell you how many older union bartenders I've had that are there just to go through the motions and pick up their check. A great example would be La Salsa. Go to the one in the forum shops(union) and those guys work their ass off. Go to the one at Mandalay and they have absolutely no personality. Sometimes it's even hard to tell if they are still alive!<g>

I would guess there are at least 20-1 non-union vs union bartenders in this city. I know a few bartenders personally and they make as much or more as union bartenders because they "work" at their job to get tips. As a pct. I've had many many more lousy bartenders at a casino than in non-casinos.

Can someone explain how all the non-union bartenders are being exploited that they need to be protected by a union? I know the stuff about benefits but a lot of non-union casinos offer benefits also. The basic question here is what are the valid points that a casino should be strong-armed(which we all know they are) to pay union rates of twice the prevailing non-union rates?

Let the fun begin!<g>

Randy

Randy,
A great deal of the union Bartenders are older. They are in it for the long hall. Some of the compalcentcy, might be from the "I've seen it all, been there done that" attitude. I'm not defending the unions though, just the bartenders! LOL
I'm going to step in it here, but, there was a time and place for unions. Right now as we turn the century mark, I question there usefulness anymore.



------------------
Lee-PA
Moderator, What's New Forum
lee@talkvegas.com

I am a Teamster, therfore I agree with whatever their position is on any given subject.

This is not really a union vs. union question, but I stayed at MBay a few weeks ago and didn't see the LaSalsa there? Wouldn't be surprised if I missed it, but I would look for it if I go again (love those strawberry margaritas). I did see a LaSalsa at the Luxor though...

For once I agree with Lee, When the unions came into being they were needed. But they have out-lived there usefulness. IMHO

------------------
larryinmi@home.com

Well, I can only say what I've heard since I have no experience with unions.

I used to work with a very respectable, hard-working lady. She had worked in a few casinos. Her opinion was that most of the union workers had the attitude that they would only do what they were getting paid for- IF that.

Being in the food/beverage business for years, I believe one needs to give a little more (personality?) than what they are getting paid for.

Another thing that this lady told me when we were discussing the Frontier strike was that most casinos were non-union. And she couldn't understand why they were only targeting the Frontier.

------------------
gail@talkvegas.com
Moderator, TalkVegas After Hours
Administrator, TalkVegas BB

I'm not sure about Vegas but if I hear that I have to do "more with Less" one more time at the non-union hospital I work at, I'm gonna start singning the union fight song.

Unions still have a place. I have met people who don't work for a union who are unusally grouchy all the time.

[This message has been edited by doug (edited October 28, 1999).]

I vote with the "Unions have outlived their usefulness" group.

We pay WAY more for many things than we should have to due to unions.

The free market system works, if you let it.

jm

Sorry, Sam, I meant Luxor.

"Unions have outlived their usefulness

I've had more bad bartenders inside casinos than in regular bars in Las Vegas. But, I have met some great bartenders inside some casinos also. Therefore, I think it really comes down to the individual. When I find a good bartender, I tend to just keep going back to him/her. When I find a bad one, Like Danny at the Sportsbook bar at Caesars, I just avoid him/her.

------------------
John
Moderator Dining Forum
john@talkvegas.com

I just returned from my step-daughters choir concert. One of the songs that was sung was Tennesse Ernie Fords Sixteen Tons. Knowing the history that goes with that song, I wonder if we have forgotten how hard workers fought for the right to from unions and why they were needed.

At times I agree that the unions get to asking to much. But as a whole, I still think they serve a useful purpose.

Doug, I think that those who say unions have outlived their usefulness might want to reconsider. Maybe at least see if they qualify for a necessary evil. Sure the early unions ended child labor, 80 hour work weeks, improved working conditions, etc. Let's not forget that most companies have people that look for ways to save a buck here and there and increase productivity. Even the anti-union group should consider that the unions are one tool to keep the companies in check. If all unions were abolished overnight, you can bet the bean counters of many companies would be slashing workers benefits as fast as they could.

I agree that the stereotype for old unions has outlived it's plan, and I'm not totally sure that my $60 per month union dues is a bargain for the benefits I get today. What I am sure about is that if every company was union OR if every company was nonunion, things wouldn't be pretty. I'm glad there is some balance and competition.

Well! Being a union bartender in Las Vegas, I find the stero-typical analogy some what harsh. Lee, I hope I'm not as bad as as described in some areas. Also, I hope I don't fit the "old bartenders" describition. JMT has a lot of good points. I would also like to add that management ties our hand in a lot of matters, which leads to some of the personalities, combined with age, that leads to that kind of tender that we all don't want to see. Randy, it was a management decision that you can't have the McAllen that you want on a comp. You had one when I poured it, and thanx for your patronage.

Alan,
I see your all over the place tonight. Glad to see you posting! BTW, you know where you stand with us! <S> TOPS!


------------------
Lee-PA
Moderator, What's New Forum
lee@talkvegas.com

Hi Alan,

I understand perfectly about the type of drink you can serve being dictated by management. My posts about that were really in jest. BTW, I made the mistake of NOT getting a drink from you. You just showed me the bottle after the other guy gave me one so I knew it was there. I did figure I'd get the "good" stuff from you.

My original post was of course, a generality, and there are definitely a lot of exceptions, you being one of them.