The Dubai money bought a large portion of City Center in partnership with MGM Grand, I believe. I think that the Echelon money is coming from US sources; but I tend to agree that some of the Strip Hotel/Casinos will be changing ownership sooner than expected.

These valet guys seem to know more than the stock market pros regarding what is really happening (the pros and cons) to the larger properties on the Strip.

I honestly think that we've seen the end of Las Vegas as we used to know it.

It changed immensely when Howard Hughes came into the picture, and once again when Steve Wynn got on the Strip, and our present economy will change it even more noticeably.

For better of for worse? You tell me!

I personally think it hit its peak as a free spirited service town just prior to Mr Hughes entering the picture. In my personal opinion, those were the "Glory Days".

I think a desert tortoise under a rock in the desert knows more than the stock market pros.

Las Vegas constantly reinvents itself. Some people see several phases inbetween the mob, Howard Hughes, Steve Wynn, and current era. For instance, the town changed when they went after the childrens themes and that didn't last long. Steve Wynn started the mega resort era, but the competition took off ran far ahead of him. I don't know how long the celebrity chef era will last.

Every era has it's advantages and disadvantages. I think you are correct that the days of free spirited service are gone. When Las Vegas recovers, it will have advantages that we have never seen before and we will surely miss something about what we have now.

Another oddity about MGM Mirage. In 2003, they started dropping themselves from local community and business organizations including the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce. Last Tuesday, they resigned from the NRA. No, not that one. It was the Nevada Resort Association, a powerful lobby group that makes hotel decisions as a group, such as a pending hotel tax on tourist. Harrah's, Wynn, and Stations support the tax.

There are probably two things that are going to help Las Vegas in the relatively short term:

One is the fall in gasoline prices. They are down at least 1/3rd from the peak around here. Its like having an extra $20-30 a week. Its got to help the weekend traffic.

The other is the economy makes gambling look like a good idea. Savings is pointless, the new regime will just take it away. Further safe investments are paying negative returns. They are now discussing abolishing 401-K's because they don't want the retired to have an income that is not under government control.

Might as well cash out and go to Vegas, at least it will be fun while it lasts.

I think that the offers in the past month have been getting better. Previously Bellagio was offering between a $99 and $169 per night rate. They now have gone to 3 nights free.
The offers from the Station casinos have also improved.

Gold Coast just sent me a colorful e-mail offering $25 mid-week room rates. Have not seen any decent room that low in a long time.

Checked into The Palms a month or so ago for $90 per night and was upgraded to one of their new and better rooms which was almost as nice as a Bellagio room.

Where can we find that Bellagio "3 nights free" deal, Eric?

Tuesday, October 28, 3008 Wynn stock hit $31.27 at 10:40 AM today!

This marks eight (8) straight months of declining gambling revenue on the Las Vegas Strip.

Wynn stock shares have dropped 67 percent this year.

Sands shares decline 94 percent
.
MGM Mirage has fallen 87 percent.

At what price will these shares become an EXCELLENT BUY?

Whenever it happens, it will happen and we won't know. We will look at the numbers and say, "Yep, last week was the best time to get in". Who foresaw Wall St jumping up 1000 today?

Today Wynn is at $46.58.

Did we miss the boat.

I bet not!

I spoke earlier of how the Arab connection to Las Vegas via MGM is big and hinted it might be bigger than most realize. Today brought the point home even clearer. Dubai already owns about 10% of MGM and Cirque and 50% of City Center.

Dubai World has already pumped billions and billions into MGM, Cirque, City Center, and no telling what else and whose pockets. They own at least 50% of the $9 billion City Center.

Now the Gaming Board has allowed several subsidiaries of Dubai Worlds "investment arm" to pump another $6 billion into MGM Mirage.

Sorta stinks of dirty money to me and might just be the tip of that ice berg.

Wynn was as high as $60 on November 3 but it's back down to about $44 at present. So we didn'nt miss the boat - just Yet! GOna be interesting to see what it hits just prior to and after the grand opening of Encore.

JMT can you elaborate a bit on the Dubai World's "investment arm"? I know nothing about that part of the world except that they have loads of money.

No I can't. I do find the wording suspicious at best. It's not Dubai World that people are only somewhat familiar with and is probably a legit company. And it's not really their investment arm which is a very vague way of saying a friend of a friend of a friend. It is subsidiaries of that FOAFOAF.

Dubai is a very open country. Everyone knows the leader and his family. There aren't any big secrets. How can you go down that many secret steps and not be in dirty money? It might not be a direct link to terrorism. It might not be associated with illegal arms sales. It might not be money stolen from other governments. It might not be from an unfriendly country like Syria. It might not be a big secret US spy ring. When you use company names, it's easy to track. When you go down a secret staircase, each step has it's own secrets. And my suspicion puts it deeper into the dark side with each step. I think that if it was Kuwaiti prince, he would have the pride to put his name on it. I don't know of a more politically correct term than dirty money. $6 billion is not pocket change for anyone, especially legit sources.

I read his week that the Sands is having a major problem with its bond covenants.

A number of nations have sovereign wealth funds. Kuwait started the idea though the biggest is now China. Up to recently, the middle east countries have concentrated in investing in financial services while China has gone into natural resources.

Given the poor outcomes of investing in financial services, I would not be surprised to see the Emirate funds diversifying and real estate is a traditional investment for uncertain times.

let me see if i kinda have this sorted out-it will soon be dubai-mirage,hong kong sands corp(venitian)wynn ain't talking but you know he is hurting, (sands laying off 11000 in macau,project on hold,terrible herbst corp soon to file,1/2 billion in debt that he can,t cover.i may be spinning the news but i thought boyd was in trouble and will you are worried that we missed the boat on wynn. stock? put your money back in your pocket and just wait,and the real problem is 25.00 rooms ain't gonna fix the problem!now i don't want to be mister gloom and doom but we just might be there and for me it might be a good time to pull back a bit. a buffet dinner and twenty bucks through the slots at my local tribal will have to do for awhile

I guess I see it different than CNN. Sheldon's problems and SteveDots problems are my opportunities.

What's wrong with a $25 room that used to go for $125? What's wrong with a $100k home that used to go for $350k? What's wrong with $2 gas that was $5 this summer?

Agreed that a $25 room wont solve the economy mess. Staying home and buying Indian buffets and pumping $20 into a tax exempt slot wont solve it either. It could be argued to be worse for the economy. Individually, none of us are going to solve this mess. A Chicken Little attitude wont solve it. Spending your retirement now wont solve it.

Almost everyone has less spending power than before and I wont tell anyone how to spend whatever they have remaining. I think the answer is how much we have left in our pockets, and not the status of MGM or Sands or Boyd.

Take a shovel and bury your money or take a checkbook and find the bargains???

the point is that you haven't seen the bottom yet!

Where some see garbage, others see gold!

I have a friend who has been buying Wynn and Boyd in big batches even though I advise him otherwise. Actually he is following the advise of his Stock expert and ignoring what I have been telling him.

And I do agree with Dagwash .... we ain't seen the bottom just yet.

BTW, I did go to another Indian casino in Northern California this past weekend and the place was packed to the rafters.

Most recent news reports that there were 10% fewer visitors in LV this September and that one of the Mesquite casinos will be closing down temporarily.

Also the Sands Macau is laying off thousands of people who were involved in their new construction project.

I often get in trouble for having a bad choice or words. I honestly am not trying to argue with anyone or change anyones minds. I honestly don't understand the mindset. And I think it's a good topic for lots of different views. Please don't take anything personal.

I won't repeat my points. I even agree that we haven't seen rock bottom. I agree the big casino owners that pay taxes are hurting. Even the ones with terrorist backing are having layoffs. I agree the tribals are thriving. I agree our retirements are in a tailspin.

At what point is it okay to "pack the rafters" at the indian joints and avoid Las Vegas? Because you never go to a casino with anything other than expendable income, right? We have more expendable income than we did this summer, right?

A long time ago, someone had a very simplified expendable income formula for tribals vs Vegas expenses. Something like 4 evenings at a tribal cost about the same as 1 trip to Vegas. Maybe sub in local instead of tribal to include casinos in Chicago, Detroit, AC or anywhere else.

I am just now starting to notice the weekend traffic die down on weekends where there are not big events. I'm sure the week days are weak. Personally, it's all good for me since I'm not big on crowds. There's a lot of fun to be had here and I'd hate to see anyone miss out ONLY because their TV said that Sands, MGM, Boyd, and Wynn are in trouble and you had better stay home.

Also, I'm probably confusing the topic of How's Vegas Doing, into How Are You Doing. They are related. In a strictly on topic point, The Venetian/Palazzo complex has halted construction on a huge new condo tower. That thing is gonna be an eye sore unless they find a facade to cover it up. Right now, it's a mess.

from another board-station casinos laying off 40 reservation clerks and outsoursing the work to a overseas company. there's some local,loyal support.i could not confirm a source for this other than from another board

Yep, 40 rez agents jobs outsourced overseas. Confirmed on this board.

Ya know, My Vegas trips this year will be the smallest amount I've made in many years. But it has nothing to do with the economy., or how I'm doing personally. I've found other interest and now Vegas (still #1) has to share some of that time and income with my other choices.
I must admit, I like less crowds. On a recent trip to AC, the crowd was down, and it was a beautiful thing! A much better experience then I normally have in AC. I am looking forward to my upcoming Vegas trip, and I am hoping it's not as hectic on the strip.
I also believe, we have not hit bottom yet, and sadly believe we ain't close to the bottom either. M2C